Purchase and history of my 1970 Citroën ID20/ Dsuper5 convertible

The 1970 Citroën ID20/Dsuper5 was bought by me as a Berline, 09-11-2007.

Later I discovered that it is an ID20 according to the registration papers, but that an original DX2 engine is mounted with a 5-speed manual transmission.

That complies to the registration papers: ID20 with 2175 cc engine.

But according to all books about engine types and years, the ID20 with DX2 does not exist.  There is a Dsuper5 as a successor of the ID20 with DX2 engine, but only from 1972 on.

Well, I rather believe my license plate than the retrospective lists from all kinds of websites.  Because Citroën has done all sorts of things with different engine versions per country.

My ID20 originally came from France and was imported into the Netherlands in 1970.  The car was originally metallic green, but when I bought it it was black.  When I bought the car, it had doors with recessed latch.  I left it like that.  Unfortunately, I was never able to find a carte grise for the car, so I have to assume that the data in the RDW register was taken over correctly when the car was imported into the Netherlands.  I did check on the engine type and there is indeed a DX2 engine in it (2175 ccm) with 115 SAE HP.

After the purchase in 2007 I had a lot of work to get the car safe and reliable again.  Despite the still valid MOT.  The seller had told me that the reason for selling was that he could not get the car through the MOT anymore.

I kept the pictures of the original advertisement in 2007:

The car had been poorly or not maintained, all the sheet metal was bad, and the sheet metal under the car was also in bad shape.

The sunroof was leaking and the car was completely wet inside, also all the upholstery was soaking wet.  The trunk was also soaking wet.

After the sale was closed and the car was registered, I drove from Amstelveen to Woerden and the car drove unexpectedly well.  Both on LPG and on petrol. The car did pull to one side, but after pumping up all the tires along the way, that was completely solved.

After arriving in Woerden I parked the car in the garage.  My Traction Avant was ready and I had temporarily moved to another place so I had all the space to work on the ID20.

From the first discoveries I have kept some nice pictures.  The bodywork had apparently once been treated with putty, and over that the black paint had been applied.  The paint looked nice, but the putty came loose from the car everywhere.  When touching some of the protruding parts, the putty easily fell off.  And there was always rust underneath.  The previous painter apparently didn’t include the stripping or preservation of the underbody in the preparations -or at least didn’t do it adequately.

After removing the upholstery, sofas and seats, I first let them drain outside, and then let them dry out inside.

I immediately replaced the sunroof with a new waterproof electric Webasto folding roof.  That solved the biggest cause of the leakage.

Then I first worked on the bottom of the car and the trunk, because of the MOT.

After the bottom was done I replaced, repaired and/or adjusted the following things: Brakes, knuckles, steering, grease rubbers, leak bags, exhaust leak, hand brake, lighting, LHM, V-belts, engine oil, spark plugs, oil filter, half front train Right, tires and balancing, alignment, longerons reinforced, leak chutes side trunk, sheet metal all around stripped, preserved and put in black primer, gearbox oil.

After that the APK was passed and we took the car to France on vacation in the summer of 2008 and 2009!

In that period of 2008 and 2009 I drove the ID20 as a private car, but gradually it became clear that this car cannot survive outside.

Therefore I arranged for a second garage so that both the Traction Avant and the ID20 could always be parked inside and I purchased a 2nd hand more modern private car.

Then I was able to get back to work with the ID20 to refurbish the sheet metal once again.  I did a serious job of refurbishing it and cut out all the bad pieces of rust and sheet metal, bought replacement parts where possible and made new fender edges for the front fenders myself.

Because the whole car is made to measure at delivery it is very unwise to exchange parts of the bodywork like doors and mudguards.  With a hood or boot lid it should be possible, but it remains to be seen whether it fits between the existing fenders.  In the course of time Citroën has often had slightly different sizes of plate parts and because of the differences at all the factories you never know exactly what a second hand replacement part has as origin.  Let alone whether you can find out from your own car.  So I completely restored the whole original set of my car, and where necessary like with the door frames always processed only 1 door at a time, so that I could always fit it to the counter-frame.

The car was, after everything was completely finished, black.  After this I drove the car only a little.

In 2016 I came in contact via-via with a convertible builder in Friesland and after some back and forth I decided to have the Berline converted to a convertible in 2016.  The costs were quite high, but that included the retesting and license plate modification to Cabrio.  And the entire inside and outside of the bottom was immediately reinforced with 2mm plate.

During the conversion to convertible I also replaced the LPG tank, filling hose and supply line to the engine.  The LPG tank was also placed a bit lower in the trunk, so that there was enough space above the tank for the folded convertible roof.

A couple of years later, I decided to change the cabrio’s roof frame and alter the trunk lid to get a smoother rear of the car.

Then, in 2021, I decided to get the car repainted and in the process of doing this, get all the old parts upgraded like the fenders and so on.  This process is still ongoing (08-2022).

 

UPDATE 2022-10-01:

 

Reuter’s 4-door Citroën ID/DS convertible

Starting in 1960, the German coachbuilder Reutter built a small number of 4-door Citroen ID convertibles.

These cars are unique and not very known.

The hood folds to just over the B-pillar and then slides to the windshield.

See the pictures!

Is tgis possibly also a  Reutter?

Reutter cabrio ‘in het wild’ .. of zou het toch een zelfbouwer zijn?

 

 

 

Citroen ID20 cabrio (1970) new license plate holder front

The old one is obviously no longer shaped liket it should be.

I just bought me a new one, and the differences are clearly visable.

The curves above the  air vent inlets are complete gone in the old one, whereas they are quite prominent in the new one.

I suspect that someone reworked the old one without knowing what it should look like…

I am not going to reshape the old one, maybe sell it someday.

I just bought me the new one which was very expensive, by the way.

And I will get it cleaned to the steel, before rapainting it.

Original ID 1965 leather front chairs for my Citroën ID20 convertible (1970)

Original ID20 chairs for the convertible are very hard to find, especially lately.

Fortunately, I have a complete set on stock with the front chairs side handle to fold the back forward, both left and right in the original brown leather version.

Also, I have the rear bench and back from the same donor ID (1965).  The rear bench don’t fit in my 1970 ID20 convertible but the front chairs will fit nicely.  I will get the car tomorrow out of the winter storage …erm, this will be done a little later,,,  But- they will first be refurbished with black leather,  The appointment is made for 2nd week of September.  Will see when they are ready!  Then, finally, I can take the temporary Volvo C70 chairs out.  But only after all of the remaining issues are handled.

The issue list contains a full outside overhaul of the body, the coming fall and winter.  Everything will be taken out and off- bumpers, mirrors, lights, windows et cetera.  Then- sanding it down and making the body nice again.

Then, the inside will be done. A lot of work will be needed on the inside of the doors and on the side panels of the rear of the car. These panels are a combination of the donor panels from the Aui80 and some metal sheeting that I glued on these panels to fit the longer car.  These need to become integrated side panels, and they need to be covered with black leather.

After that, a new paint job in racing red is foreseen for spring 2022.

Then, the car will be put together again and the new carpets, A-, B- pillar covers and so on for the interior will be put in.

And then, finally, the refurbished (old) front chairs will be put in where they belong!

 

De oorspronkelijke bruin leer rechter cabriostoel
Leer verwijderd om als mal te dienen voor het nieuwe zwarte leer
Het nieuwe zwarte leer gesneden
Nieuwe geïmpregneerde deurpanelen gemaakt

Citroen ID/DS 1970 front door repair with new door box inside and outside half door plate DIY with description and photos

2021-09-24: This morning my new sheet metal ordered from Cit’art for the left door of my DIY Citroën ID/DS 1970 convertible was delivered: A half door plate and a 3-piece inner tray.

For my ID Berline, I’ve previously fitted doors with new half outer plates and door trays a few times so by now I know roughly how to go about this.  Because the Citroën ID/DS has not been very dimensionally stable over the years (understatement!), there is one thing you should always remember: Always fit the tray and then the door plate AT THE CAR and don’t make it all pretty on the workbench only to find out later that the door doesn’t fit!

I might be going a bit far as most people assemble the door body on the workbench and then place the half door plate on the car, but I first align the door body properly using the removed plate as a jig and then weld the new door body in place with a few dots.  Then fit it to the car, possibly aligning it with the hinge points attached to door and car so that the top and side top and middle are perfectly between front screen and rear door/ Perfect means here: In the same place as BEFORE this action.

If everything is as desired, also try it on with the door plate.  If something doesn’t fit, measure the difference in height or depth and remove the door.   On the workbench: Loosen the welds where necessary and correct what is needed. Place the door back in the car and repeat previous steps until everything fits perfectly.

Another important tip: The side pieces of the turret can be placed in different ways: On the intermediate plate, under the intermediate plate or partially under and over it.  I now choose to make the side pieces fit exactly to the door and NOT weld any plate at these side pieces on top of each other.  That means you won’t see a transition when you open the door.  I like that better and it gives less chance of rotting in the future between the places where sheet overlaps.  There’s always going to be moisture in between there.  By the way, I did have the half door plate and the tray intermediate piece cross over where these plates are welded to the old door.  This also has to do with sturdiness, but it is also almost impossible to finish neatly when you don’t want the overlap.  Moreover, you can easily seal this overlap with special seam sealer.

The pictures speak for themselves!

UPDATE 1-2022:

I finally made time to complete the welding on the left door mid of January, 2022.  First, I put the electric heaters in the garage on for a couple of hours, and then I welded the inside part of the new plating fully to the inside of the door.  I also welded tags every 3 cm on the seem in the inner part of the door. After this, I grinded all down so it will later be invisible, at least on the inside of the door since this will not be covered by anything.

Then, I put the door back in the car, put a lock in and set the door at the correct height- and depth.  Then, I fitted the outer plate on the door and adjusted the cutout and the inner angle of the plate I earlier welded on the inside.  Also- the sides were adjusted and I ended up cutting some 4mm from the rear plate’s lower horizontal part.  The outer parts was just too low for about 4mm. I also had to get 4mm off the cutout of the existing door plate.

I took all parts off that were in the way or made the new plate stick up.  Then, I spotwelded the new plate at its final position.  After this, I took the door with spotwelded plate out, put it on the welding table and used spotwelds every 5cm (2inch) at first, cooling the welded work with compressed air and moved on to slowly weld around until everything was closed.  Then, I tapped the edges at the bottom, left end right around until it almost closed (used thin sheeting to prevent them from getting too tight).  Grinded the weds nicely off, all aound and putthe sinc spray everywhere, including inside the door.

Remounted the door and it all fits beautifuly.

Some mudworks still to do, but that’s all for later!

Welding tip: I use a Gebora 160 MIG machine with 0.6mm wire and mixed gas.  I use the following settings for spotwelding: wire speed to 6 and power is set at 2, that is the 2nd position of max 6.  I found that spotwelding sheet metal when oe of the sheets is around 0.6-0.8 mm,, the setting of power 1 is just not enough to get a spotweld that sinks a bit in, I always get uplifted welds, also if I lessen the wire speed.  But- at power 2, all goes well.  Welding the Citroen’s plating can, however, NOT be done at position 2.  That burns right through the thin plating.

Actually, that is the main reason I always use a bit thicker repair plate so I can at least make decent connecting welds.  You do have to start the spotweld from the thick plate and then move gently just towards the thin palte and stop.   There’s just no other way to do this, imho.

Now, the welding is done. I also welded the connecting hooks of the front fenders already with new connecting pieces for mounting onto the chassis and that also turned out OK.  Next chapter will be the finishing towards 2K primer, sanding and hopefully also painting!

 

Citroën DS/ID20 1970 convertible: The final makeover part 3 – execution

In this section all the info and photos about the installation, assembly, finishing will be presented:

This post is available in Dutch (switch to Dutch to read the article in Dutch)

Interior paneling
Spraypaint jobs
Carpeting the chairs, sofa, door panels
Exterior strips
Bumpers
Lighting
Gear shift controls
Handbrake
Wheels, tires and wheel covers
License plate holders
License plates
Hood tie
Speakers, radio and antenna
roof lining
roof lock
roof cover lining
Etc.

Citroën ID20 convertible 2021: The makeover part 2 – preparations

Picked up from Daniel Q yesterday with many thanks again, also for the tea!

2 air hoods and spacer, connector and front bumper mounting brackets. Partly NOS, partly used and in good condition.
Replacement outside handle for the left door
2 window cranks
2 Mudflaps original rubbers for the front fenders
2 stainless steel inserts to be mounted behind the inside door handles
Various DS small parts

The license plate holder I already had as spare.  The one I took off of the car is no longer usable.

New nicely polished convertible bumper, everything on the inside has been redone as well. The spider-bumper holders are nicely refurbished and preserved. Costs something and you have something right away!

Took out bad parts of the 2nd hand air horns so new sheet metal could be welded in.  The happers were blasted and then treated with zinc spray.

The spare license plate holder has been neatly flattened.

And primed
Just a quick fit

 

Ordered today 5-9-2021:

New suspension eye for L front screen

  • 8 x LED 120cm fixtures at ibood with 6400 Kelvin bulbs for the side van de garage
    and behind a few more existing emitters, light is everything when you are sanding and plastering!

  • The rail holders of the tilt front seats

    Left door panel, stripped. I will probably use these panels again. The plastic replicated panels seem to be too floppy anyway, and deform too easily.

Citroën DS/ID20 1970 convertible: The final makeover part 3 – execution

Citroën ID20 convertible 2021: The makeover part 1 – the plan

Started today September 1, 2021 the complete makeover of the Citroën ID20 originally converted to convertible by Oord in 2016.

This was the car at the (pre-) last round of paint (primer) in 2018:

And- this time the color will be RED:

The exterior of the car will be completely dismantled, all sheet metal will be removed and where necessary, made tidy.

The original stainless steel Pallas wheel covers will be replaced, the plastic (2CV) spoke covers will be removed.

The front bumper has been disassembled and is being polished. The rear bumper will be replaced for a newly purchased extended convertible bumper, also already completely polished.

The roof will be completely recalibrated and the cover plate of the roof will be covered with Sonneland fabric. The black Sonneland cover is fitted with the typical push buttons.

The original 1966 Citroën ID tilt front seats go to the upholsterer and new black leather is fitted.

All loose parts are removed from the car, then the car is tightened.  First coarse sanding, 2k primer, contrast spraying, medium sanding, fine sanding and then to the painter.

Oh yes, the air conditioning will be removed.  That is very superfluous on a convertible and I can also remove the extra radiator of the airco that sits in front of the cooling water radiator.  That saves on originality!

And that ugly antenna goes off at the same time!  I have a reinforced antenna that goes on the inside of the windshield. On the right side.  That is hardly visible and very easy to hide in terms of cabling, and close to the radio!  And this antenna can be used for DAB+ at the same time.

The car will be tomato red RAL 2013.  The professional (Basf) Glasurit 2K paint, hardener and thinner is already in stock! The inside, side, bottom and top of all sheet metal parts will also be painted red.  The inside of the trunk, doors and doorposts will be red as well.

After painting, finally the by then re-upholstered seats can be put in and all new grey NOS carpet parts can be mounted.

The trunk lining can then be put in as well, and then all the external parts that were previously removed and either refurbished or replaced can be fitted.

Specifications: 4-cylinder in-line ID20 with 2.3 liter engine, two-stage carburetor and original electronic ignition.  Air conditioning (manual). Manual sunroof.   4-person, 2-door version. LPG installation on the license plate.  Last 2 years renewed: Water pump, alternator, hydraulic pump and fuel pump (All precautionary).

The intention is to put the car up for sale in the spring of 2022, to make room for a next project.

A P1800S with 1970-1973 build and overdrive would be a nice idea.

Or building a mehari yourself with one of those French replica mehari kits, or maybe stripping a 2CV and then using a fresh chassis and the old 2CV stuff to build the body of a Mehari.

Well, as long as petrol cars are still allowed to drive around, I can continue with the hobby for a while….

Update September 3, 2021: Completely emptied the front fenders, and removed all the tar and tectyl.  Ordered a new replacement plate (left mounting eye was a bit baked on, will be made neat again with a new eye and replacement plate in the inner fender. . Fender edge will also be repaired).

The headlight housings will be cream colored again, they are black now.  There are already new headlight mirrors in them so that saves some time.

The front wings were completely cleaned on the inside and underneath and then put in grey hammerite.

On the wheel arch side, there will be a black colored protective polyester coating. in my experience, that is the only way to protect the inside in our wet country with all kinds of gravel and other debris on the road.

In the rear, I previously installed aftermarket aluminum mud trays for protection in the inner fenders.

I completely disassembled the front bumper and replacement (very good NOS) sheet metal parts were arranged.  The air horns were bad and the rest of the bumper connecting sheet metal was pretty bad too.

Oude plaatwerk tussen en achter de voorbumper

The license plate holder is also immediately replaced for a NOS one. The bottom of the licence plate holder has also become a bit too thin.

I had replaced the stone trap for a polyester type much earlier, so that will come off but it will also go back on after the underside has been cleaned, painted in the right color (same as the body) and the plating on the bottom has received a black anti-corrosion treatment.

The engine and gearbox, drive shafts, suspension and wheel bearings will be overhauled this winter, so these will also be taken out completely so that I can access the chassis properly.

I have to check if the threaded bushings in the chassis where the double front suspension is mounted are still in place. 14 years ago one bushing on the right side was welded again, but only on the outside because the engine was still there.  Now that everything is going to be taken out anyway, I can do the inspection on this point at the same time.

After the front wings, it is time for the doors.  I am going to saw off the bottom so that the normal size of an original convertible door in terms of height remains.  Then I’m going to weld the doors shut and finish them off.  The body near the doors will be widened to the outside of the door so that a wider sill becomes visible on the outside below the doors.  In this way the bodywork under the doors continues from the front near the A-pillar to the rear.   The yet to be purchased lower decorative strips then run from the A-pillar to the rear reflector in one go.

Lengthening the doors is not an issue, because the first Chapron models were also executed with the original size of the front doors.   Nice excuse not to do that with my convertible either. In terms of boarding, there is not much improvement.  With the new old handle seats, the backrests can easily be moved forward, if anyone would want to ride in the back.  Besides, it is far too much work to have all the windows made anew, moving the B-pillar I see as possible but also a shame to open everything again now that everything fits nicely.

THE SPUITWORK

Because painting is a profession, I’ve been looking for a paint booth that can be rented near the garage and the workshop of the ID20 convertible.  But it turns out to be difficult just to rent a space for half a day.  Since I do all the prep work myself and already have the paint and such in stock, there is little to be gained for the rental company.  I also take my own sprayers with me.  And, if necessary, also the compressor and dehumidifier.

So it will probably come down to me spraying the car in my own garage.  In preparation, I have already made the suction in the existing recesses in the outer wall, and the filter can easily be placed against that.  Heating comes from 3 electric radiant heaters that can be attached to the ceiling, of the type outdoor heater.

The suction of the compressor comes from under the greenhouse, which is completely covered.  In the pressure line there is a dehumidifier, in the spray room the dehumidifier is on continuously before spraying and I spray HVLP with about 2 Bar.

Lighting from the ceiling is arranged with 8 fixed LED fixtures, from the side also 8 LED x 120cm LED fixtures are placed, with cold white light 6800K.

Before spraying with the Glasurit 2K lacquer, I cover both the ceiling and walls and floor with plastic so that dust has no chance.  The extraction and suction of air goes through filter boxes.  I get my own air for inhalation from outside through a long 34 mm hose.   During spraying, all doors are unlocked and there is always someone around.  The compressor is outside the spray room so the overpressure must be able to get outside through the filter box and the fans in the wall. I don’t expect much spray with the low spray pressure and the electrostatic preload on the car. So also in terms of breathing I don’t think I’ll have any problems but as a precaution I prefer to get my own air clean from outside.

The garage is 3.5 by 5.5 meters and now that all the stuff from the garage is in the greenhouse, I can easily walk around the ID20.  So the spraying should also be easy.  I plan on when spraying it to do the inside of all things like doors, screens, tailgate etc first and then the outside.  Since I disassemble all rubbers BEFORE spraying, I can just close the doors and lid after spraying the inside and continue spraying in one pass.

First layer with 5-10% thinner and the second layer after 15 minutes just pure.  The third layer goes after 30 minutes with 5% thinner and the last layer after 45 minutes with 10% thinner.

This (already 12 years old) Glasurit paint does NOT need clear coat to get a good shine and because of the thickness of the paintjob I can always clean/polish the car for an even better finish!

TO PART 2

Citroën ID20 rebuilt from Berline to Convertible

My 1970 Citroën ID20 Convertible has a story.

I bought the car early 2008 as a Berline version,  in running condition.

But- after my initial maintenance and repairs  the MOT proved a lot of problems with the chassis, lights, brakes, steering and so on.

So- the following month I repaired the car and made it ready for the MOT (In The Netherlands this is called the APK).

After this was all done, I restored the car best I could and used the car for about 5 years as my family car.  We went on summer- and winter holidays with the 6 of us to Germany and France, a couple of times and I used the car mostly for the weekends since I also had a company car for work related traffic.

But- the weather conditions in our country caused quite some rust problems for the ID20 and I decided then to get the car more permanently in my garage and I bought me a more fitting car as private car.

Later I restored the ID20 fully, paneled the doors, repaired the boot and the underneath of the car, longerons, front and rear fenders and so on.  Basically, it was all plating repair.

Then, in 2016, I decided to get the car rebuilt to converible by a well-known Dutch cabrio builder, Oord DS cabrio in Zwaag. This took a big part of the winter of 2016-2017.  The rebuild also included a new license for the car, with an original Convertible ID20 model on the (Dutch) license at the same (old) license numbers..

After this, I made a lot of improvements to the car like a new roof, from an early Audi 80, a refurbished HD pump, new waterpump and refurbished waterpump housing, new refurbished steering rack,  upgraded the airco with new condensor and dryer, refurbished airco pump and so on.

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA

And- right now (2021-9) I am taking the car apart again to get everything overhauled.  Fenders, hood, boot, inside, chairs, bench, plating, engine, gearbox, drive shaft, suspension, steering, and so on.  This is now more of a cosmetic overhaul BUT everything will be taken out, checked and overhauled if needed,  and back in this winter.  New leather is already underway at Eelco Schuurman’s shop for the ID chairs, new carpeting is araedy available and so on on the inside, the door panels will get renewed (also by Eelco Schuurman) , the car will get a nice new red paint and so on.

The process of this is also available on this website in ENGLISH

Original ID 1965 leather front chairs for my Citroën ID20 convertible (1970)

2021-June 6th.

Original ID20 chairs for the convertible are very hard to find, especially lately.

Fortunately, I have a complete set on stock with the front chairs side handle to fold the back forward, both left and right in the original brown leather version.

Also, I have the rear bench and back from the same donor ID (1965).  The rear bench don’t fit in my 1970 ID20 convertible but the front chairs will fit nicely.  I will get the car tomorrow out of the winter storage and will put the chairs in this week.  Then, finally, I can take the temporary Volvo C70 chairs out.

I will post some pictures to show what this looks like, asap!

Replaced the waterpump of my Citroën ID20 cabrio (1970)

July 2019: I noticed a small amount of coolant under the car from time to time, after parking.

So looking for the cause, and as a precaution, I immediately replaced the water pump housing, thermostat, lower hoses and water pump.

Also replaced all gaskets, cleaned the surfaces, checked all hoses optically and so on.

After fitting, first tested the cooling system with a pressure kit and left it pressurized overnight.  No leakage.  The action seems to have been successful.

Update 3-2021: After this action, it appears that there is still a little coolant under the car when I have driven a bit after which the car has been parked overnight.  While driving, the car does not seem to lose anything.

It seems that as the car cools down, it builds up so much pressure in the cooling system that there is leakage that does not occur while driving. Possibly the expansion and contraction of the engine parts has something to do with this and the contraction after driving could possible cause the extra pressure. Apparently the radiator cap is not the solution to this problem. This cap should open at a certain pressure and allow some of the compressed air at the top of the radiator to escape.  That this principle does work is clear because the catcher at the bottom of the overpressure hose which is mounted at the radiator cap does catch coolant when I have incidentally overfilled the radiator slightly.

In the meantime, I have ordered an overpressure vessel to mount in the cooling circuit to better compensate for the pressure, and a mechanical pressure regulator and valve to adjust this cooling system to a pleasant maximum pressure.  I hope this will stop the cooling system from leaking.

Vialle D4 LPG evaporator exchanged with Lovato RGV090 evaporator

Due to some diificulty in getting the Vialle D4 evaporator to work properly with the Citroën ID20 and due to the fact that the Lovato RGV090 is made especially for carburetted cars like the ID20, I decided to put the Lovato in the car, and get the Vialle out.

I had previously already overhauled the Vialle D4 with a so-called ‘kit’.  In this kit, all diapragms, the needle and the rubbers were provided.  But, after the overhaul, it never really worked well.

The reason for not working well has to do with a number of things after a lot of research.  First of all, the evaporator is actually far too big for the required power of the engine.  The engine produces a maximum of 90 hp and the Vialle evaporator is then actually still in the lower range.  The result is that everything works but that picking up based on the demand for LPG doesn’t work smoothly.  You notice that with careful acceleration.  You have to push the throttle quite a lot to have effect.

No problem on the motorway, but it is difficult when driving quietly in the city or off the highway.

 

The Vialle D4 does not have a vacuum connection, but shuts off and on with an electric coil. (the one top-right of the above phote) The D4 can therefore also be used for ‘single point injection systems’.

But, I only want the LPG installation to be used as old school self-suctioned carburetted LPG installation.

So, end of February 2020 I put in a factory new Lovato RGV090 which basically is a vacuum controlled evaporator with an electric choke coil.

 

Lovato RGV090

 

On the Lovato evaporator only 1 setting is possible, and that is about the point where the evaporator starts giving LPG on command (and how much, given a specific suction).  The big plastic screw that does this presses on a spring that makes the diaphragm in the evaporator move more difficult when the screw is turned in (clockwise) and makes the diaphragm move easier on the suction of the air inlet when turned out.  This basically means that more LPG goes to the engine when the screw gets turned out more.

This is the setting that you should set to 1.5 % CO at 800-1000 RPM, the so-called stationary setting.

If you set this, the  2nd setting you must make is the throughput screw that is placed anywhere in the path between the carburettor and the evaporator.  Set this screw midway when you are setting the CO to 1.5 at stationary RPM.

After the stationary setting is done, try how the engine reacts to pushing the throttle.  If it does not react fast and firm enough, turn the throughput screw a bit out until the reaction at pushing the throttle is comparable to the situation on petrol.

Then, test drive the car and turn the throughput screw back a little every time until you lose power at full throttle. Then , turn this screw 0,25 to 0,5 turn open and you’re done!

PS: The one screw on the evaporator is NOT a stationary screw.  Although it does affect stationary RPM due to more/less LPG, you can only set it right when you use a CO meter,  Otherwise, you can ruïn your car due to too lean settings.

If you want to do it completely correct, the CO at 3000 RPM should be checked and set to 2.5- max 4 %.  The balance between stationary RPM and RPM 3000 is a difficult one, but make sure that you will NEVER get below the minimum values of 1.5% CO at stationary and 2.5 % CO at 3000 RPM!  And- make sure you use both the screws in adjusting the CO%’s.  Especially at 3000 RPM, you must adjust the screw that is in the LPG line.

If you want a better installation, get a system that utilizes a CO plug that reads the exhaust values of CO to regulate the quantity of supplied LPG.  Such systems are available from Lovato and Vialle, both with injected AND carburetted LPG systems.  It does require some additions to your car’s exhaust but that is all very well possible, should you want it.

 

 

CX hydraulic LHM pump in my Citroen ID/DS

Due to returning problems with 5 LHM pumps in my ID/DS I decided a while ago to get a CX pump, make it fit the ID/DS and replace the previous original ID/DS pump.

The problem with any original pump is that they all leak. Not during driving, but after a while, in the garage or in the parking lot.  I had 3 overhauled pumps from the larger suppliers but thay all shared this problem.  Not a lot of leakage but enough to get me in trouble in my parking garage.

On top of this, new MOT ruling is that a car, also old cars, may not leak any fluid.  So, it was coming anyway.

I had a LHM pump available, from one of the first CX series and this is what I did:

  1. pull off the pulley from the CS pump with a special puller kit(I bought my kit on aliexpress for 30 Euros including posrage). You need this kit since the newer pumps like from the CX use a press- on pulley.
  2. Get an original pulley that is alike the one in your ID/DS, or use the one from your car’s LHM pump. I used a pulley for 3 V belts, 2 for the feed side and i for my Airco.  Get the hole on the Lathe turned up to almost 16mm.  Not too  much or you cannot press it on the CX pump axle.
  3. Still in the lathe, turn the inside of the pulley to the shape of the CX pump’s outside diameter.
  4. Turn the pulley in the center so that the pulley is exactly in the right place (by measuring) , just not against the pump housing.
  5. I chose to put new metric M8 thread in the inside of the CX axle by using a rethreading kit (helicoil) for M8, for ease of installing the press-on pulley and for fastening the pulley with a standard M8 bolt.
  6. Turn a ring, inside 16,05 mm and about 8 mm thick, because the CX axle will come through the ID/DS pulley about 7 mm.
  7. Press the pulley on the CX pump’s axle, put the self-made ring on it and fasten the lot with an M 8 ring and bolt.
  8. Use thread fastener of any kind.
  9. Then, get the car and get the old pump out. I usually leave everything in, but my airco pump because this is really in the way.
  10. Put the new pump and tubing in, with new rubbers. I also replaced the sucking tube to the LHM supply.
  11. Then, fill the pump and hose with LHM and start the engine.  Woith the filter tube up, fill this with LHM till the pump works well. stop the engine, quickly replace the tube in the LHM barrel. It took me 4 times before the pump continued working.
  12. The result: Fast on her feet, and absolutely no more spillage and leakage!
  13. View te picture gallery for the details!
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Out for a drive with the Cabrio, 2019 June 1st, Woerden

Today I needed the space in my garage, and I washed and waxed the DS cabrio afterwards outside, in the morning sun.

Then I took a fresh box of cigars and took the old lady for a ride through the Dutch ‘groene hart’ countryside.

And, at a quiet place, I took some pictures,both with the hood up and down.

The weather was fine and it was an enjoyable ride!

I think it will be time to start a new project, since the DS cabrio is in perfect shape.

Not everything in the interior is perfect yet, but maybe I should leave that for a new owner…

The engine runs well, both on LPG and Euro gas.

Shifting is well, steering and light, everything is OK.

And the airco also runs smooth.

UPDATE IS HERE

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Driving the DS convertible September, 2018

Yesterday , 27th of September 2018, it was again a beautiful day so I took the DS out for a drive through the Dutch countryside.  Hood down, windows down and a temperature of around 20 degrees Centigrade. Not too bad alltogether, I just lit a cigar, switched on the LPG and drove away.  The car moves elegantly, the 5th gear also works very well and everything is working fine. Tested the airconditioning and this also worked fine.  I also took a couple of pictures:  Maybe I will not sell the car after all……

I still need to have the carpeting installed and have the seats upholstered with black leather…  And have the roof finalized by a specialist, will get to all of this later!

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